It is currently Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:15 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 233 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 24  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:37 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:01 am
Posts: 1103
Location: Hope, BC
This thread for exploring themes and ideas raised in the ongoing podcast dialogues. Any thoughts, insights, or questions you have as a result of listening, suggestions for future guests, music, or anything else, here's the place for it.

_________________
The only thing new in this world is the history you don't know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:47 pm
Posts: 104
Cool. I just need to go listen to them. I've actually tried to put some effort into listening to some podcasts lately but unfortunately none of them have been yours. Now that my attention has been brought to it I will check them out. I saw that you have a new one with Peter Levenda so that seems like the logical place to start for me. An older interview you did with him was one of the best I've heard of an interview with Levenda as you are one of the very few interviewers I've heard that seemed to really engage his ideas in more depth. I'll get back to this soon with some thoughts after listening.

_________________
"...the poster-child for the pitfalls of occult-ego-inflation." - Jasun Horsley


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:02 pm
Posts: 26
Just wanted to comment on your recent conversation with Peter Levenda, since it's still somewhat fresh in my mind. His hardcore research background and more conspiratorial slant couples well with your ability to put the whole conspiracy "us versus them" narrative into a more personal and introspective realm. I liked that you brought up his uncanny knack for being in the right place at the right time. As soon as you mentioned that, I turned to my girlfriend and said, "like how he grew up next to that weird church in the Bronx." We had just watched his presentation at the Secret Space Program Conference on YouTube a couple nights before the podcast aired. I'm really looking forward to hearing the second half of that interview. As far as suggestions for other guests...I would love to hear a conversation between you and John Anthony West. Are you familiar with him? He is one of my favorite researchers/Egyptologists and just seems like he would be a cool guy to talk to. I also wanted to mention a sort of synch that happened when you were talking with Alan Green regarding "alternative" movements being derailed or infiltrated (probably not getting the wording right, but hopefully you get the idea). Immediately, I though of Henrick and Red Ice. I too have noticed a distinct change in the tone of the R.I. podcast. No sooner did Alan pull that up as an example. Maybe you can interview Henrick. Also I remember a great convo between you and Neil Kramer (I think it was on Stormy Weather) Would like to hear you and him talk again. Thanks for the opportunity to give you some direct feedback. The podcast really has me thinking about the whole concept of liminality.

I tried to post a version of this earlier, but I don't think I was successful. This is my second attempt so if the other one did go through sorry for the repeat.


Last edited by Jeff22 on Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:47 pm
Posts: 104
I gave the interview with Peter Levenda a listen. It was much as I suspected it would be; very well done. You might be the only interviewer that has the ability to tap into Peter the way you do. He doesn't usually talk about those topics in the fashion that you evoke in him and he himself hinted at that when he mentioned the other radio shows and podcasts he's usually invited to be on. I always find his talks engaging and kind of a breath of fresh air subject-matter-wise but he never talks about his own personal process as you got him to do which makes for a deeper, more interesting discussion in my opinion. I'm going to wait to hear the second part before I pull details out of the interview that interest me further for discussion. I'll probably listen to the entire interview from the beginning again so that I can jot down some notes. As you and Peter both stated to each other, there is a lot to take in there. Great interview so far though.

I also gave your interview with Joseph Chilton Pearce a listen and that one was amusing as well as a little frustrating at times as I think he may have not quite been hearing everything you were saying very clearly. There were a few points I thought were interesting though but time wasn't taken to really draw them out and elaborate on them. Something Pearce said about unlocking one's hidden potentials once one can get oneself out of the way struck me in familiar ways. I also thought this statement you made was interesting: "Physical pain and illness was a result of my thinking which, of course, is language." My hearing that may be a personal synchronicity for me but I will resist posting it in that thread. My wife has been very engaged in a kind of workshop this past few weeks that deals with aspects of that quite a bit. Right after I listened to your podcast early this morning she came to me with a video of an interview with Mario Martinez, author of book titled The Mind-Body Code: How to Change the Beliefs that Limit Your Health, Longevity and Success (I've not read it but will probably be able to take a look at it soon as my wife ordered herself a copy), where he was talking about the exact same thing.

EDIT: Also, you mentioned giving suggestions for future guests... I think putting you and Paul Weston (author of Aleister Crowley and the Aeon of Horus) together might make for a very interesting slice of time. I would be very curious to see if you could probe deeper into his ideas. He has his own little podcast as well that you can get a taste of on his site I linked there.

Joseph P. Farrell may also make for an interesting exchange. A lot of his "alternative research" overlaps with what Peter Levenda talks about, albeit slightly more speculative, but he seems more caught up in the surface of a lot of it. In his books however he doesn't shy away from some of the esoteric aspects of his subjects so it would be interesting to hear an interview with him in the fashion you approached Levenda just to see if there is a deeper understanding on his part. Most interviews I've heard from him (one of them with both him and Levenda together) are more like what Levenda mentioned about those "right wing" type of radio shows where the interviewers themselves have a very surface understanding (or none at all in most cases) so never ask the more probing questions as you do.

Just a couple of suggestions that come to mind.

_________________
"...the poster-child for the pitfalls of occult-ego-inflation." - Jasun Horsley


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:51 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:01 am
Posts: 1103
Location: Hope, BC
Thanks for this considered feedback;

I am hoping to hook up with Kramer at some point; I just did a convo with Paul Levy which will be up the week after next;

Paul Weston, had a brief correspondence with, will listen to a podcast; Joseph P. ditto, we share a publisher so he is aware of Aeolus material and I contacted him about Prisoner of Infinity, sent him docs to read but didn't hear back.

I have thought about asking Henrik on.... I doubt he'd go for it but you never know.

One thing I hope's clear from the podcast so far, I don't want to restrict focus to the usual suspects, ie, Alt. Perc. Comm. folk. At most 50% of that, the rest on artists and other sorts of researchers (Morris Berman, Sydney Sheldon, Brian Rotman, if I can get them).

I haven't heard of John Anthony West (JAW!), but will look into him.

First time I have heard Red Ice referred to as RI ~ usually signifies Rigorous Intuition!

_________________
The only thing new in this world is the history you don't know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:47 pm
Posts: 104
John Anthony West is one of the proto-alternative Egyptologists that, along with Robert K. G. Temple, kind of paved the way for the "New Egyptology" wave that gained popularity with the likes of Robert Bauval and Graham Hancock in the 1990's. West's whole thesis, which is summed up in his Serpent in the Sky, is based on or is a rescension of the writings of R. A. Schwaller de Lubicz whom he gives credit to for being the first to make the water erosion observation on the Sphynx. So you might have heard of him if you are familiar at all with any of the "New Egyptology" literature but perhaps just not making the connection.

How about Jeffrey J. Kripal as a guest, can you get him? You mentioned some of his work quite a bit in POI and I'm curious to hear what he has to say of the focus(es) of your work.

_________________
"...the poster-child for the pitfalls of occult-ego-inflation." - Jasun Horsley


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:14 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:01 am
Posts: 1103
Location: Hope, BC
I have asked Kripal and while he is seemingly very friendly & supportive (even made a donation), he's also elusive, and actually neither agreed nor declined. He has asked for a copy of POI but never commented on it so I don't know even if he has read it.

In our email exchanges he seemed unable to see the distinction I was making between pseudo-enlightenment through trauma-induced dissociation and the genuine article, suggesting that he views this as a spectrum rather than a binary, as I do, ie, that one man's dissociation is another man's enlightenment.

_________________
The only thing new in this world is the history you don't know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:47 pm
Posts: 104
Indrid Cold, I have some thoughts on your post up there but I will get to it later when I can ponder over some of it a little more. You brought up some interesting points that I think are worth looking at but unfortunately I didn't come into this thread just now for that and I don't want to get sidetracked in the moment. rofl In the meantime...

I just finished re-listening to the podcast with George Hansen. I took down some things earlier on in the talk but then became lazy about pausing and typing and just let it play out. I will revisit it again soon and pick up a few other things that I'd also like to hear about and talk about further, particularly some of what comes up closer to the end of the talk. For now I have the following and I hope I got it down accurately because there is a lot of mumbling in places and I left some of that out.
Quote:
Hansen - In my view the trickster and liminality and things like that are somewhat resistant to effective abstraction. It's hard to think about these phenomenon effectively without concrete or specific examples and then you can start building models that are a little bit more abstract.
I don't really have anything to say to that but just thought it was interesting.
Quote:
Hansen - It's not easy to describe the meaning of it (liminality) in two to three sentences.

Jasun - Yeah, I'm encountering this now because I'm writing about it and, you know, McLuhanism that 'the medium is the message', and it seems to be that if I'm going to write about liminality then I want to give the reader an experience of it which means having an experience of it while I'm writing about it and it seems that writing itself is almost anti-liminal.

Hansen - Uh, yes! It generally is except when I write about it I tend to get very, very reclusive, stay away from... you know not do too much socializing, just immerse myself in it. So that's how I deal with it because I have to think through things and I go back and re-read what I've written and see if it still makes sense and I typically have to add additional qualifiers for it not to be misleading to people.
I've also had a hard time writing about (or talking about) these liminal subjects and my own liminal experiences for the simple fact that putting anything in writing solidifies ideas in one form or another. The act of writing seems to be a form of grounding one's ideas. There can even be an inner tendency to feel (at least for me) that if it can just be written down clearly then whatever it is that the writing is an attempt to convey potentially validates itself... it become more real, especially if it is signed off on with the proper signatures. Writing has always seemed to have been an act of validating or used as a means to justify certain impositions; it's not official (not part of reality, not sanctioned by the royalty) unless it has been put in writing and signed. I'll leave it at that for now because I'm finding myself tempted to follow a few tangents there and I don't want to venture too far off.
Quote:
Jasun - Would you say that liminality is the natural state for us as human beings?

Hansen - Uh, no! For a temporary period it can be. There are certain people who are permanently liminal; the very low class, the homeless, monks in monastaries would be... But by and large it is a difficult position to be in and it's not a good position to raise a family in unless you've got lots of money. It is generally not comfortable.

Jasun - Yes (mumbling around)... I guess I'm, for me it's kind of a natural state, I'm on the autistic spectrum if that kind of relates somehow, but um, I guess I was thinking not so much in terms of physical activity being a liminal state but in terms of consciousness. If liminality or a liminal state, it relates to not knowing in a sense...

Hansen - Yes.

Jasun - ...because we're in between one thing... we're in between the familiar old past or concept or structures and the new ones that haven't come into form. So, um, I guess that was what I meant by whether it was a natural state, because in a sense we don't ever really know. Like in more than a philosophical sense but a psychological sense we don't really know... you know, we've got memories of the past and we've got ideas about the future but in this present moment... actually isn't the present moment itself inherently liminal in that sense?

Hansen - No, no... most people are pretty tied into their environment and their social world and they're pretty well structured, pretty well know what they're going to do, you know if you have a regular job you've got to get up, you've got a certain amount of time, you've got to get to your job, you've got to get home, take care of the kids... no for most people, uh, their lives are pretty well set especially if you work for a large corporation, large bureaucratic organization. If you are an artist and off on your own, well then that's a little different. But most people today are pretty well tied into the system; they have to make the money, they have to raise their kids, they have to get to their job... no, their lives are pretty well structured. A little anti-structure and then they'd be out of a job.
I sensed an uneasiness in the above exchange that seemed to crop up a little stronger again later in the talk. It felt as though you, Jasun, might have been uncomfortable with Hansen's disagreeing with your personal use or interpretation of the concept of liminality. You actually moved on after that without delving further into it. Could you share your thoughts on what was going through your mind during this part of the talk? Personally I find both your perspective and his relevant. As I said, that uneasiness seemed to have cropped up again later and by the end (maybe you edited in those comments at the end? so not sure when they occurred during the talk) Hansen seemed to have been reprimanding you for the meandering nature of the interview saying that he normally would take charge in order to give it a structure so that the ideas are understood by the listeners, or something along those lines.

Also, I found it interesting that some readers thought that Hansen and Ramsey Dukes were the same writer. I never thought that but when I first read The Trickster and the Paranormal I immediately noted the similarity between its premise and that of Dukes' essay "The Charlatan and the Magus". Anyone who has seriously practiced Magick and makes an effort to understand what's going on with whatever effects are produced with those practices should know this deeper phenomenon that faking "paranormal" experiences tends to eventually cause the "real thing" to happen... or, to put it another way, inserting trickery into a system tends to produce real anomalies that are not easily or cannot be explained.

_________________
"...the poster-child for the pitfalls of occult-ego-inflation." - Jasun Horsley


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:56 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:01 am
Posts: 1103
Location: Hope, BC
NKB wrote:
I sensed an uneasiness in the above exchange that seemed to crop up a little stronger again later in the talk. It felt as though you, Jasun, might have been uncomfortable with Hansen's disagreeing with your personal use or interpretation of the concept of liminality. You actually moved on after that without delving further into it. Could you share your thoughts on what was going through your mind during this part of the talk?

It's been a while but I did feel frustrated, or "blocked" to use the actor's term, by Hansen's stricter, more anthropological/sociological use of the term liminality. As I recall I did try to delve further into it but it didn't bear much fruit so I edited that part of the dialogue out. Since this was my first time interviewing someone for a podcast (in a formal setting) in five years, and my first dialogue with Hansen, I was already feeling unsure of myself, and Hansen's assumption of an authoritative stance (insisting on structure), coming as soon as it did in the "liminalist" project, was disconcerting.

Essentially what makes for a good dialogue, in my view, is when there is a kind of matching that occurs, when the two psyches involved are able to meet and overlap, as in a vesica piscis, each matching aspects of the other to increase that area of overlap (a liminal zone!). This didn't happen as much as usually does (and has in subsequent dialogues), which meant that it was more "meandering," or, from my perspective, more stilted. The result was a lot more editing, or sculpting, to find the structure inherent in the meeting of psyches.

I thought this was most observable in the talk with Levenda, which took maybe two hours before this overlap began to happen (ie, before Levenda began to match me as much I was matching him), the last hour being more more "connective." (I'd be interested to hear if others noticed or agree.)

I hope to be able to have another dialogue with George before too long, now we know each other's preferences a bit better.

IC: I will also try to respond to your dissocio-post later today.

_________________
The only thing new in this world is the history you don't know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:45 am
Posts: 104
NKB wrote:
Indrid Cold, I have some thoughts on your post up there but I will get to it later when I can ponder over some of it a little more. You brought up some interesting points that I think are worth looking at but unfortunately I didn't come into this thread just now for that and I don't want to get sidetracked in the moment. rofl


Looking forward to it!

NKB wrote:
Anyone who has seriously practiced Magick and makes an effort to understand what's going on with whatever effects are produced with those practices should know this deeper phenomenon that faking "paranormal" experiences tends to eventually cause the "real thing" to happen... or, to put it another way, inserting trickery into a system tends to produce real anomalies that are not easily or cannot be explained.


Under the Castaneda model of things, one might say that the trickster in this instance has hooked the belief of the individuals he has fooled, and now their individual "rings of power" are participating in a process of forging this illusion into a reality.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 233 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 24  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group Color scheme by ColorizeIt!