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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:27 pm 
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Check out his Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/RevNemu?lang=en

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:14 am 
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Jasun wrote:
Check out his Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/RevNemu?lang=en

Yep, I follow him on TW. He talks psychedelics --his main theme is psychedelic use in the Bible-- among a whole lot of other things, but still I don't see a strong advocacy of use, nor an unsophisticated discourse about them.

What can i say? I am grateful to the effects psychedelics have had in my life in healing me, althought i should be also grateful of having had the opportunity to have the internet and read lots of criticisms and warnings of former users like you (thank you). Five years since my first ayahuasca experience and still I'm understanding how some traumatic events have modeled my thinking. I do psychedelics once or twice a year and they have help me to understand me better, but for me they work together with my martial arts training (my experiences are almost alwas very body-centered).

Another interesting guest wd be Alkistis Dimech -- https://twitter.com/sabbaticdance -- who is both a "Babalon Contactee" and a hardcore body-worker. She has ben on runesoup, great conversation » https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWEJViDgxlo


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:49 am 
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Funny I went to YouTube video thinking, "Give Gordon a chance," skipped ahead to a random point, and heard GW talking about his favorite Crowley book!

#2@~

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:50 am 
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Jasun wrote:
Funny I went to YouTube video thinking, "Give Gordon a chance," skipped ahead to a random point, and heard GW talking about his favorite Crowley book!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:08 am 
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Jasun wrote:
Funny I went to YouTube video thinking, "Give Gordon a chance," skipped ahead to a random point, and heard GW talking about his favorite Crowley book!

#2@~


Ya...

That link you had provided recently on twitter about the magician that had left his order because he knew they were participating in child abuse had something in it at the end that sent me down a rabbit hole. Towards the end he mentioned in passing how Baphomet is the god of chaos magic.

That struck me as odd and very disturbing, because the way everyone publicly represents chaos magic is that everything is kind of make it up as you go it's just about using belief to channel energies to create favorable situations in the universe, etc. You could use superman as your god if you wanted to.

That got me thinking. Someone on the Levenda posts on auticulture had left a comment saying that in Chaos Protocols he has a ritual which involves mediating and chanting to summon baphomet.

This type of thing is not presented publicly in the sales pitch for chaos magic.

I looked around a little bit and ran across this post from three years ago:

http://runesoup.com/2013/10/do-you-have ... -backbone/

This talks about the Levenda Dark Lord book. There's lots of bits I could pull, but in general the tone of this post is much different than current posts on the site.

But here's this:
Quote:
"With or without direct historical connections -and the time distances are too great to rely on finding them- there is nevertheless a peculiar and potent resonance to these 'shapes'; to the shape of a horned lord and a woman dancing with a serpent. Calling upon them, they 'unpack' inside you, like accidentally firing up a Pharaoh's space ship.

It is a transgression but I am unrepentant. This is how magic works. And it is amazing what happens to your whole praxis when you restore the Devil to the Western European tradition. It's like returning The Empire Strikes Back to the Star Wars trilogy."


Basically, the denial that western magic is about the devil needs to stop. The post goes on to reference the Qlipoth, which I've been running into a lot recently. This is the back side of the Kabbalah - literally evil beings. Grant Morrison is really into this and he even created a comic about it - Nameless. Reading the Amazon reviews for this is entertaining if not sad. People have no idea what to make of it in general.

Anyway, I haven't heard anything like that out of the more recent GW stuff (and I've read / listened to a lot of it). Maybe his stance has changed, I know I'm very different than I was 3 years ago.

But the thing I haven't been able to square about western magic and runesoup in particular is that the common trope is that it's about integrating our whole psyche, not about evil. Not about devil worship. You see this with pretty much anyone in this field - another example that springs to mind is a Damien Echols of the west Memphis three (have you ever looked into this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memp ... prov=sfsi1 It kind of fits right into your wheel house. I also don't know what to really believe about this despite watching all three HBO documentaries).

GW in many ways does appear to be one of the good guys, but I just get this feeling that there is a facade of sorts in place and the whole truth isn't being shown.

That's the general feeling I get with this entire magical resurgence. The fact that this stuff is being pushed aggressively (I think Disinfo being one of the prime propagators) without showing people the entire picture is not good. Speaking from direct experience, many people are lost in the spiritual seas, looking for answers. Western magic / esotericism checks a lot of boxes. It provides direct experience, it opposes the Christianity that many left, it's intellectually challenging, and honestly the aesthetic is appealing. But the entire picture isn't being presented. What exactly is the goal of magic?

It isn't the dissolution of the ego. It's the opposite, it's to become gods, and in the meantime to get "entities" to do things for you.

I have several problems with this. First off it is too concrete. You're being asked to believe the same things that evangelical Christian's ask you to, but now you've switched sides. Secondly if this truly is about integration of your psyche as they say, why are you "integrating" bits from outside of you? At least in my opinion integration doesn't involve building your ego. Finally, who are these "entities". Shouldn't we maybe know that before entering into pacts with them? (Again, this is assuming they actually exist, which I honestly don't know).

But this is almost a side argument, because largely the specifics of this aren't spelled out until you get deeper into it (and I'm pretty sure I've still only scratched the surface).


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:30 pm 
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I'd say the proof is in the pudding; what do these practitioners have to show for their practices and does it resemble spontaneity, joy, serenity, simplicity, transparency humility, human tenderness & compassion, or does it resemble intellectual prowess, condescension, superiority, and overly elaborate modes of argumentation (including dissembling and obfuscation, or just plain lies)?

Occultism is a very large spectrum and it certainly overlaps with psychology (esp. Jungian). Essentially the deal with occultism vs. psychological integration is that the latter, in my experience anyway, depends on a willingness to experience and accept our powerlessness fully and completely, where occultism is, as you say, largely about self-empowerment. Therefore the whole thrust of occultism is wrong, unless it be a way to recognize and integrate our own power-complexes, to give them attention (power) in order to activate them and so become fully aware of them and have the opportunity to surrender them consciously.

This path seems to entail recognizing that the path of occultism is a dead-end but that so is any path forged by the mind; occultism is a more dangerous method to attempt becoming whole than plumbing or nose-picking is because it provides so much fuel for endless delusions to grow in. It is endlessly fascinating.

Why are these people selling occultism? Because having a product to sell gives you more value, more of an elevated social identity. But none of these occult-peddlers are people I would want to buy a used car from, particularly. Never mind a map to freedom.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:07 pm 
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Jasun wrote:
This path seems to entail recognizing that the path of occultism is a dead-end but that so is any path forged by the mind; occultism is a more dangerous method to attempt becoming whole than plumbing or nose-picking is because it provides so much fuel for endless delusions to grow in. It is endlessly fascinating.


That's perfect. Endlessly fascinating. That perfectly describes the occult. The systems, the symbols, the imagery. It's all almost hypnotizing (which I don't think is a coincidence). This is what draws you in and doesn't make it easy to let it go.


I've been working my way through Prisoner of Infinity and synchronistically just before you responded I hit this passage in XIV in reference to the Huxleys:

Quote:
"For all the Eastern spiritual jargon favored by these individuals and institutes, the aims they put forth (in common with those of transhumanism and the Singularity) are really indistinguishable from the aims of western occultism (and groups like Scientology): namely, the development of super powers. In the West, we tend to confuse psychism with spiritual attainment. Yet from an Eastern point of view, they are seen as at odds with one another—hence the many warnings about “siddhis.” Enlightenment is liberation from the false self—the defensive ego-self created by trauma. Psychism—which can easily be confused with “human potential”—is all about enhancing and improving the self to create a kind of “super-self.” Enlightenment is said to entail a total openness and the corresponding vulnerability: the sensitivity it brings isn’t just psychic but emotional, psychological, and physical/energetic. Psychic superpowers—including the power to leave the body (dissociate) à la remote viewing—seem like a movement in the opposite direction, towards becoming invulnerable. Which is a traumatized individual more likely to gravitate towards? What are Strieber’s tales of power but accounts of a kind of siddhi-wielding, alien-engineered übermensch whose only weapon is his mind?"


It reminded my about the warning of the siddhis that you do get when you study Buddhism. Coming from a purely exoteric mainstream background, when I first encountered these warnings I thought they were kind of silly. I remember reading in an introductory mediation book that you would see weird things and even hear things, but you were to ignore these things no matter how appealing.

I just thought...ok, sure.

But several years later, I have had many of these described experiences, and it is so hard not to get too hung up on them. And I'll be honest at a certain point in my practices I really tried to work on building them and making them occur (it's no surprise that they basically stopped at that point).

My impression so far is Western Occultism is largely only about building siddhis. I think the above quoted passage perfectly defines the difference between and eastern and western spirituality.

The thing is I don't want this to be the case. I think part of the reason I keep diving into Western Esotericsm is that I do want to find something of value in the culture I was raised in, but I think that much of the the trouble comes in because a lot of these traditions are in at least part rooted in or a reaction to Roman Christianity - which was more control mechanism than faith.

In this context I get why some of the occult traditions are as extreme as they are - they were were rebelling against the empire. But it doesn't really work in a modern context when the church is no longer the dominant power structure.

Gnosticism, Kabbalah (not the back side), and Hermeticism are the traditions that come the closest to what I'm looking for in the west. They are all from the best that I can tell right hand path. But the trouble with all of these is that they're endlessly fascinating. They either have elaborate stories backing them, or intricate systems and again despite their appeal, I have to ask myself, is all of this complexity really worth it? What is going to be gained here that I don't get when sitting in mediation for 20 minutes a day?

For whatever reason, in the west we just can't stop thinking, talking, coming up with systems, and symbols, but my conclusions thus far are that we're making it too hard on ourselves. My western mind continues to mull this over and think - is Zen really all I need - it seems too simple. See how that works?

I'm getting to the point though that the answer coming back is so loudly saying "YES, JUST SIT ALREADY!" that I can't ignore it any longer. I think my point in all of this not that Zen is perfect, but just that it presupposes the least of basically all other traditions I've yet encountered.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:30 pm 
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theway wrote:
The thing is I don't want this to be the case. I think part of the reason I keep diving into Western Esotericsm is that I do want to find something of value in the culture I was raised in, but I think that much of the the trouble comes in because a lot of these traditions are in at least part rooted in or a reaction to Roman Christianity - which was more control mechanism than faith.

In this context I get why some of the occult traditions are as extreme as they are - they were were rebelling against the empire. But it doesn't really work in a modern context when the church is no longer the dominant power structure.

Thats a thesis statement. It refers to Negative Identity.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom . . . early stages of individuation are a struggle between between the desire to join and the need to beat. We want to beat what we can;t join and join what we can't beat. What happens if you can neither beat nor join? Create your own cult!

theway wrote:
They are all from the best that I can tell right hand path. But the trouble with all of these is that they're endlessly fascinating. They either have elaborate stories backing them, or intricate systems and again despite their appeal, I have to ask myself, is all of this complexity really worth it? What is going to be gained here that I don't get when sitting in mediation for 20 minutes a day?

Whether you use your right-hand or your left-hand, it's still masturbation, tho the switching of hands helps to counteract exhaustion and restore some novelty. Transgression, supplication, sadism, masochism, id, superego.

theway wrote:
I think my point in all of this not that Zen is perfect, but just that it presupposes the least of basically all other traditions I've yet encountered.

Zen & the art of anything at all. As long as wood need chopping and water carrying, there's a reason to be present. :winggleman:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:56 pm 
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Re podcast 102

A great discussion.

I'm sure you mentioned something about mucus, build up, excessive, as an indicator of being previously a victim. Could you expand a bit please?

For me this could be one on a list of indicators that I have along with quite a few of others you have experienced and described.

I get the mucus more often and severe when talking with people, maybe with certain individuals (handlers /perpetrators?) it can sound like I am fully bung up and talk nasally (clouded mind?) it will go soon afterwards and is usually not present when I am alone.

Could recurring nightmares as a child be an indicator or screen memories or some sort of blanking?


Thanks for your continued perseverance with these topics.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:56 pm 
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just saw this now; will follow up by email.

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